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The Mink Mussel Creek album (a lesson to all)


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#1 QueefGiblet

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 06:46 PM

Instead of studying tonight I'm gonna get pissed and drown my sorrows, just when I thought I'd gotten over it I get a message from some dude on some website asking me about MMC and if we'd released any material. Here is a classic tale of a recording venture going pear shaped (it seems obvious where we went wrong but hindsight is powerful and it's easy to say what you would've done when divorced from the situation), you should learn from this I think it's important to document and publicise shit like this as it just ain't right:

We recieved a 10k grant from the govt to record and album, we decided to record at kingdom studios because they have a fucking badass setup in an old freemason's hall with top notch gear and the guy (whom shall be called D) seemed like a decent guy if a bit weird. We figure it's going to go smoothly, spend a week in there tracking and mixing, send it over east to get mastered, get all the artwork and shit done, get ir pressed and packaged - should only take a few months.

We start recording and D was saying all the right things to us about how we should do it all live and spend a day just setting up and getting the right sound etc etc. We record a decent bulk of the material and our manager gives him half of his money as things are going smoothly. Then he starts getting kinda flaky and says he only has time next week etc etc, we probably don't end up going in to the studio again properly for a month. We kinda play it off at first but things start to get fishy once it takes weeks and then months to get back in the studio as he was always 'recording other bands' or 'going overseas' but most of the time he was uncontactable and didn't return our calls. We probably finished recording about this time last year.

Then we told him we wanted to mix it and he threw a hissy fit and went on this egomaniacal rant about how it was his project. Then we said we wanted deadlines for the mixing to be done as we had important big gigs and none of them were met. Then he said he had to have it done by May this year because he was leaving indefinitely and he didn't meet his own deadline, we then see him in around July and thankfully take our tapes away from him (which most of the material was on) and try to get backups of all our protools overdubs - he makes excuses about how it will take him a long time and we should come back in a day or a week or something.

We'd all had our souls destroyed by about this time last year and come a year later we don't have anything to show for this debacle, we don't know what avenues to take. I've seriously considered the ultimatum/demand/brute force/violence approach but this guy is a shady motherfucker and he can hold us to ransom because he has the overdubs we spent ages doing and don't want to do again, we've tried reasoning but all we get is empty promises, we've tried getting people to exert influence on him to give our shit up but it seems increasingly likely that legal action will be the only way to get our stuff back but unfortunately since no contracts were signed we probably don't have a leg to stand on - which leads us back to the brute force scenario!

Moral of the story - Don't ever trust people that seem kinda iffy, don't ever tolerate bullshit from people you're paying good money and don't ever pay the bastards until the job is done. Also don't ever work with D. Perth is a small place so it's not unfathomable he'll hear about this post, if that happens I'd like to hear from YOU D.

Cheers fellas, have a good night.

Sincerely,

Richard Ingham - Mink Mussel Creek

P.S. apologies to any band members/members of management if you don't like what I've posted

P.P.S. In fairness I should also mention that Kingdom is a great facility and I've heard the other guy that works there (adam?) is great. I've heard good things from people who have brought their own producer in and done their own thing (Bone's EP was recorded there and sounds fantastic, Apricot Rail too produced great material from Kingdom)

#2 The Day After

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 07:39 PM


:(
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#3 QueefGiblet

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 07:54 PM

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Hobbit, I understand your frustrations, but you should be careful what you write on an open forum - You feel youve lost now but threads like this could potentially wind up with you losing a lot more still...

If it's an honest representation of what occurred I see no reason to be worried.

What's the worst that could happen? A frivolous defamation/slander lawsuit? They are only succesful if someone misrepresents your character/actions as far as I'm aware.

#4 The Day After

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:07 PM


I guess Damo's more suggesting you could make a bunch of enemies?

I think Apricot Rail recorded there album there too, which also sounds great. Why the dude couldn't get his shit together for MMC then, I can't understand at all
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#5 The Day After

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:12 PM


Luckily we have Mr. Fixit,  Bird of Paradox, who can make it so's this never happened if it comes to that  B)
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#6 QueefGiblet

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:17 PM

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If it's an honest representation of what occurred I see no reason to be worried.
Its only honest in your eyes, though.
Youve attacked the legitimacy of Kingdom as a business and D's character - and if these cannot be proven (ie if you cant show evidence that he has  been 'shady', 'flaky' and has been deliberately avoiding calls, wasting time and not doing what he said he's been doing) then his case for defamation against you would ultimately stand.

Just giving you a heads up. I went through all this with a different company years ago and Im just saying to you - Be careful not to shoot yourself in the foot. If youre contemplating legal action, this kind of venting is the worst way to start.

Yeah all good points, I'm hot headed and I post first and ask questions later.

But I deliberately added the bit at the end about Kingdom as I have no beef with the studio itself, just the way in which my band has been treated by certain individuals who work there. Also the shear fact that nearly 2 years after we began recording we still don't have any product to show for it is a pretty damn strong piece of evidence of the nature of his character (we have proof that we payed him (EDIT: I've been informed that we don't - FUCK), we have proof of the times we spent in the studio, we probably don't need proof that we don't have the overdubs given it's what the whole issue revolves around.)

I'm pretty sure the only things I'd need to substantiate would be direct claims that adversely reflect on him to any significant degree (eg if you call someone a rapist you gotta prove it). Saying he is flaky is meh, saying he is shady is meh - both fairly nebulous concepts saying he doesn't answer his calls is meh, I'm pretty sure this would be on the lowest end of the scale regarding defamation especially when you take into account the legitimacy of my concerns and the the mild content of what I'm claiming.

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I guess Damo's more suggesting you could make a bunch of enemies?

I think Apricot Rail recorded there album there too, which also sounds great. Why the dude couldn't get his shit together for MMC then, I can't understand at all

Pfft yeah but anyone who would become my enemy because I'm pissed off about not having the album after such a long time may as well already be my enemy. 3 or 4 burnt DVDs and this situation is fixed and we can release our album and move on with our lives.

#7 QueefGiblet

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:28 PM

PS I wisened up and modified my initial post, if you could modify yours accordingly Damo I'd appreciate it (although you're my favourite person to take the piss out of on PB so I certainly wouldn't expect no favours =P).

#8 Ben

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:10 PM

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What's the worst that could happen? A frivolous defamation/slander lawsuit? They are only succesful if someone misrepresents your character/actions as far as I'm aware.

Truth is a defense, but it is still defamation in Australia because what you have written lowers the individual in the estimation of 'right thinking' members of society, and a third party (all of us) has seen it.

You'd have a variety of defences though, none of which I'm going to go into due to the fact that that particular textbook is on the Mission Complete shelf

Pretty sure that bashing cun'z is an advisable course of action. Did you have to pay back the DCA? I would have murdered the guy ages ago.
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#9 QueefGiblet

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:18 PM

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Quote

What's the worst that could happen? A frivolous defamation/slander lawsuit? They are only succesful if someone misrepresents your character/actions as far as I'm aware.

Truth is a defense, but it is still defamation in Australia because what you have written lowers the individual in the estimation of 'right thinking' members of society, and a third party (all of us) has seen it.

You'd have a variety of defences though, none of which I'm going to go into due to the fact that that particular textbook is on the Mission Complete shelf

Pretty sure that bashing cun'z is an advisable course of action. Did you have to pay back the DCA? I would have murdered the guy ages ago.

Myeah not really worried about being taken to court - funnily enough he'd probably have to contact me at some point in order to launch a defamation suit against me! If not I'd probably see him in court - hopefully it'd be a sweet judge judy judge that'd be all like "just burn the man his DVDs and get this issue sorted, your case is dismissed"

Haven't had to pay anything back no, if we had have then shit would've got ganglan a long time ago. Everyone has been remarkably civil which makes it even more frustrating in some respects. I'm civil to him in person myself but that's mainly because it'd only inflame the situation and make things worse.

This measure on the other hand is a form of publicity to get our plight known which I think could be beneficial, could also be detrimental, either way I get sick and tired of sitting on my ass doing nothing about it.

#10 Damo

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 06:49 AM

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PS I wisened up and modified my initial post, if you could modify yours accordingly Damo I'd appreciate it (although you're my favourite person to take the piss out of on PB so I certainly wouldn't expect no favours =P).

Done. :) (I have thick skin, and no issue with you by the way)

When we had our CD duplicated, we sank pretty much all the money we had from playing for 2 years, solid.
The company we went to stuffed up the artwork, refused to take responsibility, and ultimately packed up and left the country - with our money.

#11 basstapex

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:09 AM

That sucks, I was hoping for something along the lines of "we got 10k from the DCA and we blew it on coke and hookers"...

#12 Mr Serial

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:29 AM

This is a sad sad sad story and basically the reason I choose the Joe Meek method.

#13 Ben

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 08:03 AM

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Everyone has been remarkably civil which makes it even more frustrating in some respects. I'm civil to him in person myself but that's mainly because it'd only inflame the situation and make things worse.

The civility thing is so annoying in this kind of situation, that's where you need a manager to step in and play motherfuckin' bad cop
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#14 Stever

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 09:15 AM

i'm not sure how i feel about this being on a public forum and all but yeah, fuck this whole saga. we went into this project with so much impetus and drive and desire that its failure has impacted on every aspect and every memory i have of this band. not some corny take-over-the-world desire, but the desire to simply make a friggen sickass record that was an accurate representation of what we were doing. i think we were on our way there; all the tracks were done live in one or two takes, except one that was like 4 takes 'cause i kept on fucking up bigtime. there were errors the whole way through, bum notes, missed changes, and the whole thing sounded fatter than dürer's rhinoceros. the whole thing was fucking powerful, there was too much riffing for it to be played straight, so when you compare the ultra-ott-outrageous beginnings to the impotent whimper of an ending (weeks turning to months of ignored phone calls, missed/ignored deadlines, no-we-can't-do-that excusery, general shitdickery) the whole thing seems like a farce and a joke and we never should have put any effort into it because we got burnt the fuck out and removed just about all the energy i had for that band.

also, no idea what the fuck will happen with the arts council money. shit



don't nobody quote this shit because i will probably want to take it off the innernets in about half an hour but yeah i wanted to throw in on ringroll's steam venting.

#15 crover

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 09:54 AM

A tale of woe.

But all is not lost I hear......

#16 The Day After

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 10:59 AM


Ringham did say you guys got most of the tapes back off him in July though, yeah?

Worst comes to worst, and let's hope it doesn't you could release a kind of unfinished symphony which, while being a celestial mothefucker of a bummer, would probably still sound great and have a certain mystery-mystique to it
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#17 QueefGiblet

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:44 AM

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Ringham did say you guys got most of the tapes back off him in July though, yeah?

Worst comes to worst, and let's hope it doesn't you could release a kind of unfinished symphony which, while being a celestial mothefucker of a bummer, would probably still sound great and have a certain mystery-mystique to it

Yeah it'd be very unfinished though it's only really the barebones and it would be a great injustice to the songs unforch.


Steve - just received an update from Jodez, she said it's good that I posted on here and the situation is even worse than I portrayed it. It seems he is actively refusing to give them up until he is paid now so yeah shit is real serious. She also said the DCA is busting her balls about the grant too, I'll forward you the email.

#18 QueefGiblet

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:46 AM

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PS I wisened up and modified my initial post, if you could modify yours accordingly Damo I'd appreciate it (although you're my favourite person to take the piss out of on PB so I certainly wouldn't expect no favours =P).

Done. :) (I have thick skin, and no issue with you by the way)

When we had our CD duplicated, we sank pretty much all the money we had from playing for 2 years, solid.
The company we went to stuffed up the artwork, refused to take responsibility, and ultimately packed up and left the country - with our money.

That fucking blows man, god damn I hate people sometimes.

Also I don't get why you're so civil all the time, on prog archives, western front and PB you've never really lost your temper at me. Except maybe in the Daniel Adair thread.

#19 Ben

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:56 AM

Dude at Kingdom sounds like a gaylord
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#20 Mr Serial

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 01:07 PM

PM real name. I brick cars.




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