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Greenpeace. Dodgy cult?


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#41 Waste Processing Facility

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:04 PM

View PostMrb, on 10 January 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Whaling is not illegal. Yes, I don't agree with it but if Japan weren't allowed to do it, Australia would have stoppped it. That's common sense.

And that statement is both factually incorrect and lacking in common sense.

Whaling is illegal and Australia wont stop it because Japan is our second biggest trading partner. I mean China haven't heard of human rights or safe work practices yet but our pollies are onto their dicks no matter what cos they bring in the trade cash.

#42 sour_candy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:24 PM

^^ Yes. Whaling's been banned in Australia for twenty-odd years now.

The most recent article I've read says that there is a Sea Shepherd boat fifteen or so nautical miles away from the Shonan Maru II and that they could quite easily (and cheaply) be transferred onto it rather than having an (expensive?) customs boat being sent.

Those three men are simply being used as scapegoats for a government that doesn't want to face up to itself the deeper-seated issues.
...not sure about the golden knobs though.

#43 sour_candy

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:28 PM

Perhaps the most telling part of what Graham posted, from one side of the debate at least:

Statement from Forest Rescue
We have come from the forests of Australia to defend the whales being slaughtered in Australian territorial waters.

We are Australian citizens and we have boarded the Japanese flagged Shonan Maru #2 in Australian territorial waters at a position of (32 degrees zero minutes south and 115 degrees 21 minutes east).

We have taken this action of boarding the Shonan Maru #2 to protest the fact that this vessel is part of a whaling fleet that is operating in contempt of the Australian Court and is in Australian waters in defiance of the Australian Federal court ruling and the will of the Australian people.

“We are onboard this ship because our government has failed to uphold its pre-election promise to end whaling in the Southern Ocean,” said Simon Peterffy.

Forest Rescue has decided to take action to prevent the Shonan Maru #2 from tailing the Steve Irwin back to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.

Forest Rescue is making a stand to assist Sea Shepherd Conservation Society in their campaign to end illegal whale poaching in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.

We are taking this action to remind the Australian government of their obligation to enforce existing laws pertaining to the prohibition of whaling ships in our waters.

We as Forest Rescue are insulted and disappointed in our government for allowing the transit of whale poaching vessels in Australian waters.
...not sure about the golden knobs though.

#44 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:37 PM

View Postsour_candy, on 11 January 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

^^ Yes. Whaling's been banned in Australia for twenty-odd years now.

The most recent article I've read says that there is a Sea Shepherd boat fifteen or so nautical miles away from the Shonan Maru II and that they could quite easily (and cheaply) be transferred onto it rather than having an (expensive?) customs boat being sent.

Those three men are simply being used as scapegoats for a government that doesn't want to face up to itself the deeper-seated issues.

That could be why they were detained on board, and taken as far away as possible.

To the worst logistical situation possible, to make it as difficult and as expensive as possible to collect. While all the time everyone knew the charges would not stick.

The Japanese government have been scapegoated in this too. Does anyone really think they give a rat's arse? This is annoying and unnecessary for them as much as it is the Australian government.

Julia Gillard was right to say 'this does not ensure charges will be dropped in future'.

Can you imagine every crackpot and their dinghy paddling out there off the coast of Bunbury next time.. thinking they're going to be international heroes or god knows what, if our government just said the truth "yeah, the charges were always invalid, both in our opinion and the Japanese government's".

This could be the story of Japanese corporate whaling fucking with their own government, much akin to Australian mining corporations fucking with their government.

Edited by Chaircat Meow, 11 January 2012 - 04:55 PM.

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#45 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:43 PM

You got hoodwinked good Brian. That 'waste of taxpayer's money' (I agree it was), was because of how the Japanese whaling fleet vessel, with clear purpose and knowing of other options, handled the matter. Not because of the three guys that got held.

The old one-two punch of field tactics to encourage media sensationalism.

"It's a cult! It's a cult!"

hahahahahahahahaha
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#46 Damo

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:43 AM

Chair: Regarding how Japan 'handled the matter' - those three idiots could just as easily have been shot.
If these activists want solutions, they have to stop exacerbating the problem.

The way I see it,m its a bit rich to slag off the Govt for dsoing everything wrong, and then expect that the govts (our) should be used to bail them out because, 'thats what tax money is for'

ffs.

#47 Mrb

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:14 AM

for fucks sake!

I can't work out if chaircat is more annoying or more stupid. Serioulsy, he's extreme on both

Edited by Mrb, 12 January 2012 - 06:16 AM.

Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he

#48 Mrb

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:13 AM

View Postsour_candy, on 11 January 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

^^ Yes. Whaling's been banned in Australia for twenty-odd years now.

The most recent article I've read says that there is a Sea Shepherd boat fifteen or so nautical miles away from the Shonan Maru II and that they could quite easily (and cheaply) be transferred onto it rather than having an (expensive?) customs boat being sent.

Those three men are simply being used as scapegoats for a government that doesn't want to face up to itself the deeper-seated issues.

Oh yeah, I'm sure as part of THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENTS negotiations to release them , the Japanese would have been more than happy to let the sea Shepard come up close again.

That would most definitely been part of the deal.

Still no thanks
Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he

#49 Waste Processing Facility

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:43 AM

The protesters who jumped aboard the ship are dumb cunts, the Australian govt are weak cunts and the Japanese are just cunts,

Edited by Waste Processing Facility, 12 January 2012 - 11:43 AM.


#50 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:10 PM

View PostDamo, on 12 January 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

Chair: Regarding how Japan 'handled the matter' - those three idiots could just as easily have been shot.
If these activists want solutions, they have to stop exacerbating the problem.

The way I see it,m its a bit rich to slag off the Govt for dsoing everything wrong, and then expect that the govts (our) should be used to bail them out because, 'thats what tax money is for'

ffs.

1. I disagree with all this 'how Japan' behaved business. It wasn't Japan, it was one whaling fleet vessel representing corporate interests. Neither the Japanese government nor the Japanese public instructed them to do what they did. Those individuals are solely responisble for their actions. Their country is responsible for enacting laws against them and deciding the status of charges they brought upon the people they detained.
Japan played it's part after the fact, did not endorse anything the Japanese whalers did, and rejected their charges almost instantly.


2. Does Japanese law (of the coast of Bunbury) allow people to shoot people for trespassing? I know under our laws someone would be going to jail if that happened. It's harder to make shooting someone look like an accident.

If so, shooting someone really would make it an international incident anyhow. And would be massively stupid. It was never gonna happen Damo. Maybe not because they wouldn't if they thought they could get away with it, as the boat ramming incident seems to indicate.



3. In terms of people being conned by news reports that are designed for 8 year olds, and designed to sensationalise whichever aspect of a story might make people spend a few bucks to see if the headline screaming out at them 'is true'.... sure, you can say this is 'Australia' vs 'Japan'.

But really, it's a handful of people getting carried away in boats. Not two nations clashing it out.
The two nations seem more to me like a couple of weary parents, pulling the kids apart... sending them to their respective 'time-out' corners. And Respectfully addressing the details with no real antagonism at all.

So Damo, or MrB.. the cost you guys speak of... how much is it?

How much has this cost the Australian taxpayer???
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#51 Mrb

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:14 PM

You are soooooooo stupid
Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he

#52 rap panther

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:39 PM

View PostMrb, on 12 January 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

for fucks sake!

Bukkake party!

Edited by rap panther, 12 January 2012 - 12:40 PM.


#53 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:12 PM

View PostMrb, on 12 January 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

You are soooooooo stupid

Says the guy who doesn't realise Sea Shepard are not Greenpeace. And who cannot answer one single, solitary question.
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I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
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#54 Mrb

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:16 PM

You had no idea either dickhead. Plus there IS an affiliation.  I've also answered most questions.

You don't argue the case. You just argue. And your so fucking thick. So thick
Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he

#55 Waste Processing Facility

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:30 PM

You're both wrong and it's funny to watch.

#56 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:40 PM

View PostMrb, on 12 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

You had no idea either dickhead. Plus there IS an affiliation.  I've also answered most questions.

You don't argue the case. You just argue. And your so fucking thick. So thick

Really? Here's just a sample of the questions you haven't answered, and all of the personal insults in the world won't change that..


how much did it cost the taxpayer?

What have Greenpeace and Sea Shepard respectively done that makes them cults? Any true examples?

What have Sea Shepard done that makes them any more or less selfish than Japanese whalers?

Why wasn't the captain of Shonan Maru 2 charged under Australian law for either gross negligence or attempted murder... when they sunk an Australian boat with six people on board and continued to water cannon it while it was sinking?
This question is asked in the context that 3 Australians were charged for a far less serious offence and detained after Japanese law was cited. And this was tolerated.

Can you answer those questions? I'm openly inviting you to educate me so I know and understand this current topic better, and adequate to your standards for discussion.
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#57 Mrb

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:56 PM

Lets start from the top. I did not say (as you corrected me) that whaling is legal in Australia. However it is still legal for 'research' in certain waters.

Three blokes boarded the Japanese whaling vessel ILLEGALLY. It had a Japanese flag, therefore represents Japan by international law and serves under Japanese laws.
Sea Shepard bullshitted by saying it was on Australian waters. The Japanese boat had every right to take them back but through careful negotiation by the Aust Govt were released. There was no way the Japanese would have allowed the sea Shepard to go near them. So that's a dumb argument to think it should not have cost us. A cost that is still incurring.

I, like most people do not support whaling but the Japanese have found a loophole and therefore do it legally. If it were easy for Aust Govt to have it banned, they would. It's in their interest. Its not up to the Aust Govt only.

I like that both Sea Shepard and Greenpeace have apparently taken the killings down to zero. They are winning, therefore do not need to resort to life threatening or bullshit tactics, nor should they be pointing the finger at Aust Govt.

Look at the other side. We kill lots of animals and from there point of view it must look pretty fucking arrogant of us to wave our heavy hand at them. It's an industry that's gone on for generations and involves lots of communities. We all have to be a little bit understanding of that. It will be stopped but it will take time.

I fucked up with Greenpeace and I admit that. But rhey are affiliated and I do stand by what I said with them and Sea Shepard being very similar to dodgy cults. They do good but then fuck things up by being morons.
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#58 Gav

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:08 PM

whale meat must be pretty fucking tasty hey?

couldn't see myself lapping up a plate of fried humpback with my wedges and tartare. maybe the lemon wedge would help
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#59 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:35 PM

View PostMrb, on 12 January 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Lets start from the top. I did not say (as you corrected me) that whaling is legal in Australia. However it is still legal for 'research' in certain waters.

Three blokes boarded the Japanese whaling vessel ILLEGALLY. It had a Japanese flag, therefore represents Japan by international law and serves under Japanese laws.
Sea Shepard bullshitted by saying it was on Australian waters. The Japanese boat had every right to take them back but through careful negotiation by the Aust Govt were released. There was no way the Japanese would have allowed the sea Shepard to go near them. So that's a dumb argument to think it should not have cost us. A cost that is still incurring.

I, like most people do not support whaling but the Japanese have found a loophole and therefore do it legally. If it were easy for Aust Govt to have it banned, they would. It's in their interest. Its not up to the Aust Govt only.

I like that both Sea Shepard and Greenpeace have apparently taken the killings down to zero. They are winning, therefore do not need to resort to life threatening or bullshit tactics, nor should they be pointing the finger at Aust Govt.

Look at the other side. We kill lots of animals and from there point of view it must look pretty fucking arrogant of us to wave our heavy hand at them. It's an industry that's gone on for generations and involves lots of communities. We all have to be a little bit understanding of that. It will be stopped but it will take time.

I fucked up with Greenpeace and I admit that. But rhey are affiliated and I do stand by what I said with them and Sea Shepard being very similar to dodgy cults. They do good but then fuck things up by being morons.

I'm glad you answered some questions without insulting me. Grateful even!

Well i've looked at the other side, and seen just as stupid and stubborn, even more stupid and stubborn life threatening tactics going on.

So while I share some of your criticisms, I still fail to see why one group is a cult, and the other are law-abiding, sane rational people being victimised by the cult side. And i'm still hesitant to frame this as an Australia vs Japan cultural thing, or 'us' vs 'them etc

It involves politics between the countries, but the parties you speak of do not represent their countries and are acting on their interpretations of the law and moral argument each individually. They represent themselves. I don't look at a Japanese person and automatically think they're like the captain of the Shonan Maru 2.

Sea Shepard have put up some pretty good info as to what they represent (not Australia) and why they think they have a legal mandate. They cited from a law journal written by a law professional not associated with them, too.

Your opinion is your opinion though. I'm still glad we just exchanged some answers and ideas without insults haha
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I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#60 sour_candy

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:02 PM

Be interesting to see what happens in March:

http://www.theaustra...6-1226242713649
...not sure about the golden knobs though.




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