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So, what do you think will become of Julia Gillard's shoe?


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#1 Damo

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:46 AM

http://www.perthnow....c-1226254926535

Activists plan to sell it on ebay to raise profits for the tent embassy, but since selling stolen goods is illegal in this country, what do you think will become of it?

#2 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:47 PM

They wouldn't wanna make themselves look any worse than they already came off, so no-one would get charged if the shoe was put up for sale. They already announced they won't lay any charges. They have a team of spin doctors advising against it.
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#3 Damo

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

Pity, there definitely should have been some charges laid over it.

Did you hear the radio interview this morning on 6pr with the activist that had the shoe, Chair? Very revealing!

(null)

#4 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 06:44 PM

No but interested to find out more! A bit of gloating going on?

What does (null) mean?
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I found the keys to cornerstone in my coffee,
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I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#5 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:09 PM

Well this is what happened to the shoe anyways

http://news.ninemsn....aspx?id=8409987
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RIP Sid

I found the keys to cornerstone in my coffee,
I am generic brand for product of environment,
I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#6 Damo

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 07:39 AM

(null) seems to be the default signoff that pops up when I use my iphone to reply.
I guess nobody stepped on her Blue Suede Shoe :)

This whole situation really has the potential to cause massive damage on both sides.
I couldnt believe what I was watching last night. Burning and spitting on the Australian flag? REALLY?

#7 evil_boof

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:13 AM

chaircat, im sure youd know this..   DID tony abbot say the tent embassy needed to be removed? or was it like a bit of a blow it out of proportion deal?

#8 evil_boof

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:18 AM

also, the shoe was given to security at the tent embassy...  so the shoe is not for sale :P

#9 Damo

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:59 PM

EB, Abbott's comments were misinterpreted, and the misinterpretation was the catalyst for the events that took place.

(null)

#10 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

These are the bits they took offense to. The context is that he was responding to a specific question about the relevance of the tent embassy- which was celebrating it's 40th anniversary nearby;

I think a lot has changed for the better since then … I think the indigenous people of Australia can be very proud of the respect in which they are held by every Australian … I think it probably is time to move on from that.”

Those stand-alone comments have been re-worded a million times since then by media, and Tony Abbot himself. And i'm sure by leftists as well. It's hard to find out what exactly that guy that got sacked texted, but i'm not sure you can say anybody protesting misinterpreted or overreacted at the actual time Damo.

People seem to think some massive protest operation was underway whereby a group of radicals had been pre-emptively gathering 'intelligence' for days over the PM and Abbott's whereabouts so they could purposefully disrupt where-ever they were going to be on Australia day.

The truth is this. The group had already staged a protest in Canberra and were winding down for the day with a barbecue at the tent embassy. 200 metres from the PM and Abbot.  After the infamous text message, word got to the camp. As they were nearby, the protestors went down to ask Abbot exactly what he did mean by those comments. They were asking him to clarify, and they have every right to.

Is that an overreaction? They were ignored. Then brushed of and threatened. Then they got angry at the way they were treated, so they started making noise.
Then 'all hell' broke loose,

Well, not really. The security detail and police started intimidation strategies, formed a blue line against the entire group and  started  pushing people. A couple that pushed back got smashed.
While the AFP forced an 'evacuation' that was unnecessary, and made one of the most ridiculously puffed up displays you could imagine of it. They got so carried away they dragged Gillard to the ground and her shoe came off. That's the photo that made entire the front page of nearly every newspaper. The moment before the AFP knocked our PM to the ground.

They did all this purposefully to make sure the media got some exciting shots that could be construed as a 'riot'.

Julia Gillard did some playacting with her facial expression for the cameras. She is not normally scared of large crowds, she has heard yelling more times than she can remember by now as PM, she's a successful lawyer who knows the importance of every nuance involved in convincing public jurys, including body language and behaviour, and she's a hardened labor pollie who made it to PM.
She wasn't half as scared as she pretended to be.  Security measures for politicians is also about propaganda, remember. Gillard was not that scared, she was however, really mad at the time.
Angry people often play victim to subjugate a situation, eliciting sympathy that affords lenience for their behaviour or the action they have taken.

There was no crowd surge toward either Gillard or Abbot at all. One Aboriginal guy that was close to Julia got pushed away, he was a photographer trying to get a shot, just like the complete swarm of media that were the only ones anywhere near the 'evacuation' line.

Edited by Chaircat Meow, 29 January 2012 - 01:49 AM.

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I found the keys to cornerstone in my coffee,
I am generic brand for product of environment,
I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#11 Damo

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:10 AM

They were ignored because there was a medal ceremony in operation! And given some of what was being shouted out It was pretty clear their minds were already made up!



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#12 Mrb

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostDamo, on 28 January 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

(null) seems to be the default signoff that pops up when I use my iphone to reply.
I guess nobody stepped on her Blue Suede Shoe :)

This whole situation really has the potential to cause massive damage on both sides.
I couldnt believe what I was watching last night. Burning and spitting on the Australian flag? REALLY?

Totally agree. This whole thing is very sad in so many ways.

That photo was the 'money shot' that was bound to cause an outrage and I have no doubt this whole situation was blown way out of proportion to get tongues wagging. Such as mine.

Was listening to talk radio the day of the flag burning and it was very interesting. Most people calling were aboriginals. I was stoked that they feel they have a voice, which up until a few years ago, most wouldn't have felt they have. My concern was every angry caller had a different perspective on the reasons behind their anger and I couldn't help but wish that they stop holding a grudge and work with us all. Was funny, because there were a couple of elders that called, expressing the very same views I have. One bloke was very emotional and angry with the flag burning, saying he had brothers that died in the war for that flag and an Australia where everyone needs to work together. His words were close to the lines of 'they got to get off their arses, and start working with the community'.

I have no grudge with a 15 year old burning a flag and spitting on it. My grudge is on those adult thugs next to her and doing nothing to discourage it. They are no different, in my eyes as to extreme white racists that cause shit. Fact is, while there is still a long way to go, the gap is closing and we are trying to make things better. This kind of stuff takes a backward step that does no good to anyone

Edited by Mrb, 29 January 2012 - 09:10 PM.

Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he

#13 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:19 AM

Re: The flag, and particularly RSL comments.

A lot of Aboriginal people signed on for war in WW2 because they thought in doing so they could finally, and ultimately prove to white people we were all together. It backfired (pun not intended!), on them in a way that was just as damaging to our mutual relations as;

how the invasion occurred, Stolen Generation, Flora and fauna act, psuedoscientific eugenics implementation, and John Howard's systematic, ongoing and intentional disablement of most of the legislation we fought and voted 200 years to achieve legislated equity. To name a few examples.

Aboriginal men clamoured to join the Army in WW1 as well, But beside a few exceptions... ironically I think the Northern Territory allowed a 'Black Battalion', quite segregated still, but (in perhaps the most cynical and exploitative way possible under acknowledgement of their second-to-none tracking and desert skills).... they were deemed unworthy of representing Australia. Nobody was fighting the war to protect them.

Some joined WW2 because the pay was far superior to any other means for an Aboriginal person. You could send that money home to your family up until you died. That matters when you live in abject poverty and are not legally allowed to travel outside of your fringe dwelling zone to seek work, unless a white person could vouch that you already have work to go to. Just one of hundreds of 'catch 22' laws of segregation that existed.  
Military service was the only way an Aboriginal person might be allowed an 'exemption certificate'.

This certificate gave Aboriginal folks human rights equal to that of a white person, and allowed them to freely move about of their own will and ask for the white pay rate (which of course would never be offered anyhow).

Most returning Aboriginal servicemen were not offered the certificate, or if they were.. it was under the condition they cease all contact with their family, cease all traditional cultural practices and beliefs, and "live like a white person', while being checked upon regularly at the mercy of the top cop in their town- who could recind the certificate at any time, for any reason.

The Vietnam war was the time Aboriginal people were freely able to sign on, which many did. But mostly men were drafted into this war, whether they liked it or not. So that was the first taste of freedom and equal rights they got. Australia decided they could join around the same time they decided to force men to go to war. Exactly the same time in history Aboriginal people finally got the vote. As we all know in hindsight, the Vietnam war was a cruel and devastating blunder that destroyed the lives of most men who returned.
That was a war, to this day, most veterans wonder what exactly it was they fought for. Not just Aboriginal servicemen and women.

The best thing anyone can say about all of this was that fighting together in a warzone was the first time white and black men spent extended periods of time in each other's company and depended on each other for survival. What do we have these days? Playing together on a footy team?
This was exponentially more meaningful than that. This was the beginnings of true white advocacy for Aboriginal people as equals, with a number of white men returning from war realising their government, their parents, their friends had been fooling them about Aboriginal people or were just completel ignorant about them.

Now look at this from an Aboriginal perspective. How many white servicemen and women kept up their friendships or contact with their Aboriginal comrades from the war years? How many times did an Aboriginal person have to stay on the other side of the street, or get completely ignored down the pub from someone that he saved during gunfire?

I think the RSL guys should give this some thought before they take the flag burnings as a personal insult.

They are directed at a government. Not you or me. That flag represents massive trauma, and complete oppression. Physical, economic, spiritual, philosophical, political.
And no, white people did not initially or generally fight to 'save' or 'protect' Aboriginal people as equals in any wars. The Australian 'way of life' they fought for specifically excluded Aboriginal people.
Aboriginal people think in many ways our government still does. Ask them why.

It could not have been made any clearer to Aboriginal people returning from fighting war in Australia (in genuine thoughts of comradeship and as a genuine gesture of friendship and acceptance of white people.. to protect the entire population as equal occupants) that the government was not fighting the war for any of them.

There was so much hope for Aboriginal people that in war we would all pull together, and it was completely shattered.




So I do have empathy, especially for all the working class and lower class white people used in Australian military service, but I do not buy for one second the RSL baby boomers using the flag to justify anger over Aboriginal protest.

Looking at all of the disgusting behaviour from people illegally modifying their cars with Australian flags, and hearing some absolute horror stories about their Flag-fuelled treatment of other Australians from non european backgrounds last week.... made me want to go out and rip that flag off them and burn it in front of their faces too.

If you take that personally, or read into it as an attack on democracy or your own family, I can only feel sorry that that is what it takes for you to get angry. Symbolism? The Australian flag does not represent freedom, democracy, or any kind of commendable culture to many people, and at times I can fully understand that. It is in serious need of a reboot.

If you are racist, then it's obvious this will be another way for you to despise Aboriginal people. I don't care if you or your uncle or dad or granny or granddad fought in a war if that is the case. You are shaming them, because if they were people with integrity and really were the people you say they were..... they fought precisely for the freedom to protest our government, question our government and society, and burn a flag if it comes to that.

Edited by Chaircat Meow, 30 January 2012 - 12:43 AM.

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I found the keys to cornerstone in my coffee,
I am generic brand for product of environment,
I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#14 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:34 AM

Oh yeah, and you know how white Australian women were cited as 'keeping the country running' by doing all the men's jobs during wartime??

Well that's commendable, but who do you think were their underpaid, second-class slaves at these times??

And what do you think the Aboriginal men who were refused service did at these times on the farms, in the mines, in the factories. At one tenth the pay rates of the white women.

Who do you really think ran the cattle musters, the Aboriginal jackaroos, or the farmer's wife??

Do you really think Aboriginal men and women were wandering around the bush blissfully unaware? Or cowering in their humpys, useless, while the white wives and girlfriends took control of industry??


Oh yeah... I certainly think there are hundreds of thousands of people who can be accused of not appreciating or respecting those who kept the rest of us alive and safe in wartime, and made this country what it is today. It's not Aboriginal people though.
Sanssangria are happy to play your show, hit us up!

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I found the keys to cornerstone in my coffee,
I am generic brand for product of environment,
I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#15 Mrb

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:44 AM

I haven't had time to read those posts but I will later.
Re 'the stolen generation', there was an A B C doco last year of Aboriginals from that time who claim to have not being 'stolen' or had their kids 'stolen' , rather they gave their kids away because of the dangers their children faced in their own community. A couple of them claimed this was the majority of cases.
Im not saying that's how it was but I am saying thats what i saw and you can angle any situation to fit the cause you are arguing for.

Fact is, whatever the case, it is getting better and surley the time has nearly come to get over it, accept what's happened has happened and for us all to work together to make things better.

Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he

#16 Chaircat Meow

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:09 PM

Plenty of unresolved issues, I mention a few in the two posts above yours :)
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I found the keys to cornerstone in my coffee,
I am generic brand for product of environment,
I get these dreams that roll and shake into pieces,
I pick them up to find that I am wide awake again

#17 Mrb

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:56 PM

Dude, I really wish  should stop speaking on behalf of them. I have also had a lot to do with many aboriginals in my lifetime and I see many of them doing well but as one recently said to me 'its fucking hard when white people remind me of how oppressed I am. I just want to fucking get on with it'.

As I said, its easy to skewer anything to work in what ever argument you want. There are fat people, gingers, poor people, people with junkie parents etc etc etc who have also had hard times growing up and are still living with unresolved issues. Bottom line is, holding onto grudges from the past will not take you forward. Nothing can change what has happened in the past and the only way to resolve these issues is to work together. The gap is closing - thats a good thing.
Brian,Brian. The babe they called 'Brian', He grew,...grew, grew, and grew--,Grew up to be-- grew up to be A boy called 'Brian'-- A boy called 'Brian'. He had arms... and legs... and hands... and feet, This boy... whose name was 'Brian', And he grew,... grew, grew, and grew-- Grew up to be-- Yes, he




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